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Opinion
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 02/08/2008, 4:52 PM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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13/08/2008, 3:50 PM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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Basically this tragic Kent incinerator scenario highlights every thing I've raised about burning waste. Councillors are crying at leisure. It would be comical if it weren't so tragic a boo, boo. They opted for a gold plated fluid bed that didn't work, and were left red faced with fluid rubbish on their hands.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7555097.stm
WRG, were they not that multinational company who almost got there wishes to build a 150,000Tpa £100m to built. £.5bn to run incinerator at Costessey? Yep, same Spanish owned burner bandits.
We thank goodness for the Evening News campaign, the local compaign group and councillors of all persuasions!!!
Recycling is cheaper. The real cost of incinerating waste is £65/tonne, with a 25-30year lockin contract.
Kent CC are crying because the betted the wrong wrg way and lost. Non recycling slugs often plump for an out of might burner to avoid them lifting a 5 minutes/fortnight recycling finger. Problem is the burner way is a very expensive method with few efficient or cost effective outputs. The clip proves madtosh was talking from the rear end all round on this issue. More in your Blue Bin, madtosh, less in the slug bin!.
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14/08/2008, 4:53 AM
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ironsmad
 
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 189
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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They still recycle bluebottle, the stuff /crap that would have gone land-fill is torched. Can't see no problem, local councillor peed off because council are not making any money from the scrap . As the saying says "money to be made from rubbish ". In the big rush to get rid of manual workers ( council employee's ) some times comes back and bites you on the bum. The price of burning the waste is just called plain old capitalism . Could blame dear old Maggie for she started the ball rolling in doing away in-house services . As we have with City -Care now only collect rubbish twice a month , they are saving money for a contract had 52 weeks rubbish collection. Green capitalist claptrap .
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14/08/2008, 9:17 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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Every county in the recycles because 80-85% (fact) can be and its cheaper (makes money, rather than costs money), as discussed in previous posts above there are better alternatives than burning for dealing with this last 15-20% (mainly mixed plastics/composites)
For every 10,000Tpa recycling creates 250 jobs whereas burning the same tonnage only 1 job
Maggies link to gargage was Dennis. Read incinerator company Veolia when you talk about City-Uncare. The renegociated city care aggrement meant the same numbers of total collections/bin volume occur in a two week period. But recycling volume has substituted residual rubbish volume; and rightly so. City-uncare don't get any more for this contract variation. The council have been able to add 240l recycling restwaste capacity, because the puny 60l green box could no collect more than 10-15% of Norwich's total waste. Rest of Norfolk on fortnightly/Twin Bin system recycled 40% and were laughing at Norwich. Broadland is on fortnighly collection, has been for years and is up to recycling 50%+. Norwich is on catch up, currently on 25%, up a massive 7% from lasts years 18%. Thats 6% more saved in landfill tax that can stop 8% increases in council taxes next year. For every tonne of recycling the council receives £45 recycling credits, for every tonne of black bin waste the council is charged £33 to landfill it, this figure rises by £8/T/year; so in 2011 each tonne to landfill will cost £65 per black bag/bin rubbish (same as current incinerator figures£55-65). All draining the council coffers, adding to your bill, mine and others.
If the council introduced weekly food waste recycling, this would all count as recycling/landfill diversion and pay for itself (+£45/T); whereas reversion to weekly black bag scenario would cost extra (-£65/T to landfill or incineration by 2011).
Basically more Recycling volumes a Win, Win; Black bin volumes a double whammy and drain on the council purse! Slim your black bin means economic and environmental sense.
Check the figures out yourself mad . You know the logic is there. We each produce about 1tonne/household of waste/yr. All you and I need to do is spend 5mins/ fortnight sorting it (2-3hrs a year), putting more recyclables (product) in the Bluey, less rubbish (waste, non product) in the Blacky. The gross potential difference (council tax bill,monetarised/household) is about £100 (+£45 v -£65 by 2011). ie £100 on everyone's bill by 2011 if we all recycled nothing, or about £1 more for every 4kg week didn't recycle.
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14/08/2008, 9:27 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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"or about £1 more for every 4kg week didn't recycle"
Read - £1 more for every gross 10Kg we didn't recycle. (this includes Swanton Road dumping/recycling)
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15/08/2008, 4:39 AM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 189
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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Why is it that Veolia took over City -care, too make loads of money out of disposing our rubbish. whether its land -filled or incinerated, recycling being just a tiny bit player in a eco-green waffle from tw-tty politicians and mad cap councils. I would not call 7% a massive rise at all, I agree there are better ways than burning as with the project in Israel. Can get my head around recycling credits . A new one on me , another form of carbon trading conning maybe. I wait to see if and when council takes on board food waste collection, good if no extra charge, bad if there is . As with the poorly taken up garden waste collection ,which I am sure will increase by at least 10 to 15 pounds a year. How comes some councils don't charge for this service in other poorer councils . ie Newham . I wonder how large the fly-tipping increase has been in Norwich since last October , if this higher than the increase in recycling then it is a poor show on Norwich Council and they will not feel chuffed with the recycling rate. A throw away society can not be forced to change there ways . Some sort of rewards to the citizens and not having a increase in council tax is not a carrot to entice folk to recycle more. Council tax will rise anyway .
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15/08/2008, 9:40 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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Norwich now recycles 30%, a third; 10% more than last year and only half way through the blue bin roll out. Blue bins will get Norwich up to the 45-50% mark, before it will have to invest £1 more in kitchen caddies. Any food waste outlay will be an investment to save. Norwich's tonnage to landfill in the lasts 12 months has reduced by 14%. 3 more years like this and Norwich will have recovered from its recycling embarassment.
Brown bin roll outs are now with 7000 residents which is positive. Obviously you don't want to encourage too many subscribers and just sign up /targets garden owners who can't/ don't want to home compose. Its a neutral benefit service providing a more convenient servive than carting the same stuff to Swanton Road., and suits residents without cars. Also flat owners, 35% of residents in Norwich, shouldn't be subsidising a free Brown Bin services.The price will stay the same at about £30-35 pa,
Norwich made a bad initial deal that stopped recycling at the doorstep under the 2002-2006 administration; but made better with renogociating the blue bin AWC.
Basically SRM's facility (similar to Israel) that opens at Costessey will open by 2011 with gate fees £40-45; cheaper than incineration/landfill; buy more expensive than recycling options. SRM facility is a goalkeeper facility that has only a 135,000Tpa capacity (covering a East Norfolk area that produces 450,000Tpa). SRM should be ideally taken low value material like disposal razors, food trays, plastic film, yogurt pots, bottle tops, crisp packets, pringle tubes,difficult to recycle stuff etc, rather than high value /easy to recycle newspapers, card, food, steel cans, plastic bottles etc
Interesting thing about flytipping. Few people dump cars because the recycling value is up to £500-1000 in materials (ref Times/BBC). Steel/copper,engines, plastics etc. Domestic flytipping will rise a little but enforcement is checking this. Also a major source of previous flytipping from small tradesmen will reduce. As facilities to take and process; and make £££ from gyprock board, old cement, sundries, electricals, copper wire, PVC plastics etc; the trade motives to tip become less. Market prices will change flytipping behaviour as gate fees reduce.
Recycle credits are feed back incentives for recycling from the value of recycling. eg NEWS sell PET plastics bottles at £135-150/T; gives WCA's £45T of this value. Secret to recycling to to bring it close to the doorstep and reduce the hassle and simplify daily choices. Just get people to throw the right things into the right 2-3 bins and modifying habits slightly.
I agree with you with you mad that more £ carrots are needed, on citizen incentives. As recycling gets more organised, value of recyclables goes up, recycling communities should receive a % of the priceI don't think individual incentives will work, as bins will need fitting with chips, and the public have already said no to this. What will work is if recycling is weighed cumulative on a ward/community basis and recycling incentives come back to communities to spend on facilities for kids, schools, local charities, extra tree planting, events for pensioners etc.
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15/08/2008, 10:35 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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mad, have a read of this; the biggest problem might not be flytipping; but grate and sign post snatching!!
http://www.letsrecycle.com/do/ecco.py/view_item?listid=37&listcatid=217&listitemid=10308
Also, if people are joyriding bangers/ speeding over 100mph, the police might enjoy a revenue stream from confication/ recycling.
Potentially skipping stuff might change as well with market prices incentiving materials division in skips, or machanical separation of skip contents into recyclable products. Gymrok/Soil/Waste Woods/PVC/Glass etc
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16/08/2008, 2:26 PM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 189
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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I wonder what sort pea -brained scummy types nick drain covers and sigh posts ,the same inbreds who steal led from church roofs . If we could identify these and knew where they lived would you object if there was plans , to build the mother of all incinerators right on their door-step ?.
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16/08/2008, 7:06 PM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 189
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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If you can identify these perpertraitors of such crimes ,and so can I, how comes pc plod appear to be clueless or hopeless in catching them? .
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17/08/2008, 8:39 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 91
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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Because journeymen and professional organised crime have ethnic privilages and threaten human and free trade rights are breached.
If every container at Felixstowe (more port police) was searched out with a toothcomb much of this container smuggling (to order cars, metals, garden statues, amongst other things) would be spotted.
So coppers waste cash/time babysitting summer Eco campers, binge drinkers and teenage ravers.
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18/08/2008, 12:02 AM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 189
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Re: Incinerators & infant mortality rates at electoral ward level
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Ethnic privileges for scumbags ,would this have been another blunder enforced upon us by the weak Reich in Brussels . Other countries in Europe would arrest these low-life's and ignore any ethnic crap.
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