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29/05/2008, 12:22 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Ironman Take a look at this, the future, incinerator substitute!! http://www.wastenotiowa.org/uploads/WNI_Website__Plasma_.pdf You might never talk of Sweden, Holland or Dutch old muck burners again.      Report

29/05/2008, 3:28 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish no but I like the look of the Waste to Energy Austrian style;Spittelau what a fantastic work of art and function this is what we want in Norwich bring it on .    Report

29/05/2008, 7:21 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Spittelau-is a one off wolf in sheeps clothing. It cost twice the cash as an ugly one. It epitomises the disgraceful lengths some shameful waste of energy companies will go to. But most are ugly monstrousity. Isle of Man is another elephant looking con job, before it caught fire last year. Maidstone, kent was out for 12 months after the furnace melted. Sita Kirkless blew up 2 years ago. Nottingham WRG had a major dioxin leak in 2005. No Gasplasma is the future; games up,we shouldn't waste and subside this rebranded waste of energy antique and risky incinerator technology.      Report

30/05/2008, 4:45 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Fly Ash has been used in building trade for years ,many houses which were damaged during the war .had repairs with fly ash bricks and blocks,due too shortage of  bricks.Many roads in every country have fly ash content in their foundations.Holland now leads the way De Boer machine is fine example of making green bricks .80% Fly Ash 20% clay .The EU just love em. Green energy Green waste Green bricks good old EU.    Report

30/05/2008, 12:40 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Ironman: You are totally wrong about flyash (5% of incinerator input as output). I think you mean IBA or Incineration Bottom Ash (20-25% of incinerator input as output). The rest (70%) is skyfilled to accelerate climate change/ kill babies / PM2.5 damage health downwind/ add to NHS massive hospital bill. Currently in the UK;    EU,Defra,EA and government position is: A) Incinerator Fly Ash is Highly Hazardous waste /substance. (It contains scrubbed Dioxins,Furans,Poly Aromanic Carbons (Benzene etc); lead, cadmium, arscenic, zinc, mercury, Vandanium, Cobalt, Managanese, hexivalent Chromium) You can't make any Green Bricks from this; by law it has to be specially landfilled at toxic sites. This is a huge arguement against incinerators B) IBA or Incinerator Bottom Ash. Leeds University engineering department, sponsors by incinerator company Sita, are trying to make IBA into a product for construction. This is different from coal powerstation ash.They have failed so far to convince on environmental safeguards as IBA has ecotoxic levels of lead and zinc. So the industry has failed to convince government/Defra that it can be a product; thus no "protocol" exists, currently. Added to this, after the Buckinghamshire disaster with ASDA, where IBA was wrongly /cowboyish used to backfill a tunnel, carpark- It collasped - requiring a multi million £ Environmental Agency clean up of IBA - A lot of faith has been lost in IBA use. The problem with IBA- is like asbestos - when its damaged, needing repairs or demolition, captured toxics are then released. No-one has a log/register of where IBA was used. Ticking time bomb. Older IBA is worse as it had fly ash toxics mixed in. The only way to safely process IBA is to vitrify it (ie make it into a glass like tile) that lock in the nasties. This can be done at cost by plasma gasification. A company in Bordeaux, France called Europlasma operate this process for French incinerator operators, but they admit waste garbage is cheaper and easier to Gasplasma or Plasma Gasify straight off from collecting it. So this cuts out incinerators and makes them obsolete! So Dutch near the back of the queue on modern waste technology, trying rework fundimentally flawed old ideas; spinning green for brow. Greens in Holland are a bit mad also. They are the 1% of the Green movement to tolerate incinerators, propably why incinerators got through in Holland, other than the lack of land. Lets look at the important Conservatives (ie next UK government/frontbench in waiting) in the UK and incinerator positions David Cameron    Next PM                        Anti incinerator   Oxon George Osborne   Next Chancellor              Anti incinerator Nantwich Peter Ainsworth   Next Defra/Environment   Anti incinerator  Guildford David Davis, IDS, Zac Goldsmith, John Selwn Gummar, Richard Bacon, Henry Bellingham all anti. So when Brown goes, and he will. New incinerators have no futures in the UK with any new look conservative front bench. Important. Go Plasma!                  Report

30/05/2008, 2:29 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Cameron could not run a bath let alone the country ,Gummer forced fed his kids burgers ,Davis seems the only one with any thing about him.Cameron is another Blair; Hug a hoodie and all the problems go away?Read Nigel Lawson new book all about climate change,I believe the climate has all ways changed with and with out man. Sky filling good term a new one on me .Mesosphere is about 50 to 80km above the earth its full of meteors dust millions burn up daily very nasty toxins fall to earth but we survive,then we have natural phenomena ,volcanoes and biological processes that occur on land wetlands and the seas.We all so have mans input which takes a very small part and we still live.I think we should all focus on saving the hungry and poverty ridden Africa .Climate change is a natural phenomena and we can not stop it or slow it down,Hey we used to grow grapes in norfolk  600 years ago our weather patten was warmer then it changed and cooled down its a living planet . Climate change officer's my arsENAL.    Report

30/05/2008, 3:47 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Cameron - Just telling you the winning odds, whether I dislike the Tory front bench or not. I might be dead wrong that you are in the 1% of folk following the 1% of scientists hoping Climate Change in the last 50 years isn't man's fault, when 99% of intelligent scientist confirm people proliferation and fossil fuel use to be the major cause; with huge probability. Nigel Lawson is a failed now pigmy economist/ monetarist with a buxomedaughter who cooks a bit, though not as well as Delhia ; he's no scientist. Knowing him and Dennis Thatcher, they probably had a few shares/pensions tucked away in incinerator companies or Exxon. The earth's climate has changed in the past but not this amount or speed. No rapid events like meteor strike/ volcanic/ meteor shower explains it. We would know mate, like the Dinosaur's and the Yucatan strike;time was up for man on the planet due to this event type. I can tell you how the earth's climate has changed from now back to the dinosaurs, and no drastic volcanoe/ meteorite, earth tilt, obit/ inclination, wobble, sun dimming explains the last 50 years accelerated CO2/temperature/ polar ice cap melt. 6bn fossil fuel users are 99.9r% the cause of accelerated climate change 1940-2007, GAIA self balancing effect overcome, thresholds being exceeded. ie for coral In the land of nod stuff from the 1% ostriches. The little mans input debate is like tossing over how many degrees Celcius does it take to melt an ice cube in 1 minute? Well not much in a microwave. Its like denying man isn't responible for a 25% reduction of biodiversity/species over the last 50 years; and that they were all alien abductions. The planet has always survived. But because there are 6bn folks on the planet, consuming it, polluting it, along with other species,80% in cities at sea level, depending on food, oil, metals that are scarcer, or more difficult to grow in the case of staple mass produced food/ shifting /more extreme climates; we are going to so a Malthusian population shift and/or decrease. Cities flooding. So if you live in Gt Yarmouth, or  5-10 metres above sea level. ie Central London/ Riverside, Carrow Road in Norwich; you have a big undeniable problem on the way. So if the do nothing, bin all, incinerate all, consume all mentality keeps going; advice is sell up and move, or convert to a houseboat/ fishing/diving business.  The only question open for discussion is can we control / slow  our own induced climate changes back by cutting GHG's. Stern sets the do something/ do nothing cost/ammeliation. Climate Contraction 100year curve. Do something/masses wins hands down. This leaves Lawson's drivel in the economic junkyard and wilderness.      Report

30/05/2008, 3:50 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish the truth is out there don't believe the kings new clothes story SAVE THE WORLD feed them and help them and that where the truth lies climate change is normal not man made. save the children in Africa nows that is worth doing and we can do some thing about it,CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING AND IT IS NORMAL.    Report

30/05/2008, 7:54 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Actually, beleive it or not, today's changing climate is not Normal. Its normal background plus Mans fossil fuel manipuluted top up, by twice. Its becoming more extreme than in any recorded history, back to the Egyptians. Man is the cause of this, fools ignore the facts. Experts expected, that without man's fossil fuel burning antics, the climate should be gradually be getting cooler, preparing for the next glacial phase. In 100 years time Zimbabwee will be growing cactii after supporting Zimbabwean bread basket cultures for centuries, well before Rhodes and the Brits arrived, the Nile  and Niger Delta will be flooding ifs not marine. This is not normal! The price tag will be higher than feeding children in africa, millions to trillions. The lies and fiction are with the mentally and belief challenged with zip scientific research to back any credible claims, resorting  to empty wedge theory tactics, and empty storylines.    Report

30/05/2008, 8:47 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish If the mentality of some is I want to believe man made climate ain't fact. Thus we don't need to do anything about it like, recycling, saving energy; rubbish is the councils responsiblity; that is sad and ambivalent. The double wammy and irony is UK economic poverty and debt. Brown has already sold the gold, pensions, North sea oil, UK companies to foreign countries and corporations; lead and copper is going from public buildings; if the City of London goes bust; or heads off the pastures new followed by IT[lost manufacturing, services to India] UK trillions in debt, property prices diving after the US, dependent on Russias gas, always last in the Eurovision; we with only have our own waste/resources [and a few phoney celebs]to sell in a bargain basement sale if the century. No foreign companies even nick our waste. Going to the dogs..    Report

31/05/2008, 2:28 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish I agree this country has gone to the dogs big time,we once produced every thing  we needed and most people had real jobs,ambitions and goals.The nanny state and human rights bill that only applies convicts terrorist's ,illegal immigrants and the great unwashed. I wait every day for the phone to ring so I can have a chat with Gordon but he never does.People have had enough a blooming great gut-full of Labour.As you watch your pay shrink day by day.The £200 you could play with each month which you treat the kids with days out swimming or meal are going.If it was white goods that was going up you  could  get by,but food ,fuel mortgage payments are just on the rise, so people like me have had enough of lies and more spin and if as I believe climate change is spin for more taxes ,green taxes and our bins are the start.As for 99% of scientists come to the same conclusion over mans involvement of speeding up and causing climate change,where and who do they get there research grants from.If they don't come up with what they want to see and hear they won't get their next funding.I don't think 99%  of scientist any way the number is more like 9o%, if there was more in dependant research data available ,the claim might be more clearer than it is.If I was going on my holiday and sitting on the jet and the captain said 10% chance we have not got enough fuel too reach the destination safely I would get off and make sure there was 100% fuel put into the tank too make the journey safe ,I can see the gains of recycling but its not going to stop climate change its a natural phenomena.    Report

31/05/2008, 8:03 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Gordon? You will be waiting a long long time, beleive me I tried. His addiction is unaccountable central policies, and handing off small people like you or I, to trainee civil servants in CCU's; I think he does the same to MPs, especially if they are from Norwich, who are clearly not on his xmas card list! Green taxes would make sense if family taxes were reduced reciprically. But someone at No10 forgot to tell No11 about the second family tax reduction [income tax, stamp duty, vehicle licence, tv licence] Research shows 99% of scientist confirm man made climate, government, independent, ngos etc. Even most oil company scientist and low and behold George Bush [Texas's oil rep] confirm climate change is man made/ due to fossil fuel burning. Some say GB ain't a bright fellow, so his damascus conversion is with large pinches of salt. Don't know where you sourced/plucked 90%, which I conclude as false. Even CH4 conspiracy programme content was totally disproved scientifically as false,  spun and largely outdated science. Most scientist in it have distanced themselves from the programmes editing/ selected comments. Hey the scientists left are in the category that beleive the world is flat, gravity doesn't exist and the planet was created in 7 days. Oh well, no convincing some nutty folks. The 1% don't get it, the scrutiny and debate is done and dusted, they are firing dataless/ conspiracy blanks at the climate change science and economics. Actually, the research is fasinating, strongly and independently peer reviewed. When Pope and Docherty et al faced down the might of the tobacco industry and other polluters, they had to go through the same rigourous scientific and legal process. Denials, scrutiny, vested discrediting by tobacco paid experts, supreme court cases. Eventually the world woke up to the peer reviewed science that cigarrettes did not improve your health as Marlborough Man claimed, but wrecked your health and immunity, and killed you prematurely. Same vested interested denials come from 1% of wackos. Recycling /3Rscutting waste to landfill/ burning cuts total GHGs by 25%. Recycling/Refuse creates and value add 243 jobs [mainly plastics components, furniture, paper, electronic, computers] for 100,000Tonnes of waste, as opposed to 1 each for incineration [skyfilling] or landfilling. So Climate Change in the last 50years is dangerously man enhanced, out of kinter! Fact! For man that is. The future is food security, energy security and efficiency, affordable homes, cutting debt dependency for families, clean air, no incineration of waste. Efficient bin collections like AWS/ Blue bin/ weekly  food waste kitchen caddy. Go Plasma for plastics /nasties that are left.        Report

31/05/2008, 10:29 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish I'll be fair to Ironman, I diddled him out of 1% Anthopogenic CC Consensus   http://www.logicalscience.com/consensus/consensus.htm For:                        20,000 expert scientists 98% Against/Not sure:      400   expert scientists    2% Shell Oil Co. "It's a waste of time to debate it," he said. "Policymakers have a responsibility to address it. The nation needs a public policy. We'll adjust." - President John Hofmeister British Petroleum "Companies composed of highly skilled and trained people can't live in denial of mounting evidence gathered by hundreds of the most reputable scientists in the world." Lord Browne. CEO John McCain "I'm concerned about climate change. I'm going to do something about it." Arnold Schwarzenegger "I say the [global warming] debate is over. We know the science," "We see the threat, and we know the time for action is now."   - California Gov. ExxonMobil 2007 cave in statement "Because the risks to society and ecosystems could prove to be significant, ExxonMobil believes that it is prudent now to develop and implement global strategies that address the risks, keeping in mind the central importance of energy to the economies of the world. This includes putting policies in place that start us on a path to reduce emissions, while understanding the context of managing carbon emissions among other important world priorities, such as economic development, poverty eradication and public health."    Report

31/05/2008, 10:51 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Bush is mad ,driven by huge corporates and god any one who believes in fairy stories,should not be taken serious let alone have their finger on the button.He and Blair should be charged with every death that has occurred in Iraq since the invasion. If there was a hell that is where their souls will rest. Professor Stott is my main data source independent thinking and some one I do trust.This is a man with no axe's to grind Google it.Off to take the dog for a run over Earlham Park before the tide comes in bye;Climate change is normal.    Report

31/05/2008, 1:35 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 189 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Arnie is right global warming debate is over ;Because is don't exist he has seen the science ,climate change is not a science its a natural occurrence ,Global  conning is a science and a new industry and if your not seen to conform to the kings new cloths your judged as non believer a denier its all spin and big business.Mean while the third world starves.Now thats not natural occurrence its a bloody disgrace.    Report

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