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Opinion
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 21/06/2008, 4:45 PM
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ironsmad
 
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 132
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Sir Nick Stern Was chief economist at the world bank, and he was heavily in the trade issues .Now we have carbon trading as a key issue in the propaganda of global warming lies.
Carbon trading is great for capitalists but nothing in reducing carbon emissions. Europe's Carbon emissions rose by 15% last year ,I look at carbon trading as the new Del Boy spivs.
Even more worrying for us all , Is the crap idea by enforcing economic measures that we will be able to control climate predictably .His trust in the virtual world of computers, that overestimated the real world warming by three. Instead of looking at real-world data and history. Real science does not talk about facts ,it talks about observations , which might turn out to be inaccurate or irrelevant . When people start talking about ( THE FACTS) it is time to start looking for the fictions. As I said before when the lights go out !!!!who you gonna call.
GLOBAL WARMING ONCE YOU GET THE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE,YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH ALMOST ANY IMPOSITION
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21/06/2008, 7:22 PM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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Stern says the economics of acting against climate change are vastly better than ignoring it. Carbon Trading isn't the best sustainable or enforceable mechanism. Its like planting trees in the Amazon to burn more oil. Its makes no realistic sense. Its a con. Its like planting 4 trees in ones garden and refusing to maximise or fully participate in waste reduction, recycling and slugging every week. Seeing imperfections or not liking recycling doesn't mean one shouldn't participate, that the world moves on not to tolerate polluting wasteful slugs and trails as much. An imposition is that far too many have got way polluting/abusing nature/wasting and thats OK, when its not. CFC's from fridges causing ozone holes was little different from Global Warning in the Montreal Protocol. It needed the science, collective will from governments, solutions were shared, problem solved, most suggest a positive outcome for people globally.. With GW the science was more complex, more heavily scrutinised taking 20-25 years to build the jigsaw, consensus, the consequences embedded in dependence and die hard habitsand solutions more painful and long term. The 3 monkeys denial syndrone being easy. There is no denying its a difficult one.
Science also comes to deductive conclusions (beyond observations and proposed hypothesis), makes laws and prediction; repeatable experiments and results (that are termed facts if there repeatable significance level or probability is acheived and constantly lives up to and counters hard scientific scrutiny, man enhanced climate change science has acheived this even with oil companies, halliburton neo cons). Coastal Erosion is occurring in Happysburgh!
When the lights go out I'll have my PV solar panel and battery. Won't need to call anyone.
Believing people who deny GW, is like being an osterich following , indeed wishing fiction. Well ok, be deluded, thats a liberal choice, its just adding one passenger to the problem.
madtosh, you've missed a trick by going for the fiction and conspiracy. In terms of imposing any solution, this clearly doesn't stand up, countries, businesses, local communities and individuals choose to sign up, or not to different solutions or targets. China/Russia can choose to ignore GW [media control], they have lots of coal/gas and their populations can't exactly kick their governments out democratically. So something consensually must have happened with scientists from different countries, different schools to observe the same things and agree the same conclusions. Some would say freedom, freedom of speech, individual liberty, human rights, international laws and democracy are an impositions, especially in the Middle East perhaps. There's little scientific about democracy, it seems to invent itself, evolves and muddles through, some don't like it, most sign up to it in different imperfect forms
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21/06/2008, 9:23 PM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 132
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Solar Panel's not the best back up on a cold grey November day , The sunshine hours 0 no solar power, Solar needs it power source sunshine not worth investing in if you live north of birmingham,waste of money. The power cuts when they come and they will. Would last for 4 hours at a time .This government pulled the plug early this year so it could study the crime that happened during the plunge of darkness. This country is different world to the one that suffered power cuts in the early 70's. Coastal Erosion is a natural phenomena, gravel extraction can speed up the occurrences, as this governments under -funding for sea defences ,any where is poor or nil. If you live by the sea enjoy it ,fantastic . I look at this government and realize that they are good with words ,that frighten the nation SARS --BIRDFLU--TERROISM--GLOBAL CLAPTRAP WARMING. And not much good doing anything about any of them . When they start by having the balls too boot out terrorist ,that hate the way we live our lives I just might ,just might take them serious on environment matters.
Oil companies no they would lose billions of dollars,not because of climate change bills. By backing these fraudulent governments they can get their own fat asses on third world assets.
And suck them dry while poor people of these countries starve and die from preventable diseases. The oil companies and other global conglomerates and governments are cheeks on the same back-side with their mouths in the troughs of power and wealth .-----When the lights go out -------------who you gonna trust
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22/06/2008, 11:55 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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I won't trust you man for intelligent technical solutions, lol. I'll trust you for supplying unreference political global garble suitable for the organic digester. We should leave Africa for Africans to sort out. They are poor and starving 90% due to poor and corrupt goverment, and the likes of Mugabe. Following failed intervention/policy in Iraq/Afgan, we should sort UK Plc only.
Sorry having lived with solar panels in Norway for 3years with 70% electrical need from efficient solar PV and borosilicate heat tubes; I have to happily dismiss your outdatedtechnical assumptions. Also check out solarwind and helix energy modules. I agree 1970's was different, no low energy light bulbs, no efficient affordable solar technology, double glazing, 10" loft insulation, combi boilers, helix turbines, heat pumps, etc etc
Terrorist suspect/preachers v Energy policy. Rather spurious. I think we can deal with these as two distinct and specific issues. Its like blaming Al Qaeda for Landfill Tax or lack of recycling. ie Bin Laden is responsible for Bin collection.
Actually, your are wrong with regards to DTI/DBERR, announcement this week on microgeneration to push for 10/26 houses have panels, 4/6 star energy by 2020. Scientists say this decentralise capacity equates to 5 nuclear power stations. I'm not against modern nuclear as 24hr backup, or the massive standby but oil station [expensive tarriff] capacity at Fawley, Grain or Scotland. Watch out for solar mortgages, like those running in NI for 2 yrs.
Coastal Erosion. Maninet/Defra. This has an eg of a FACT that is scientifically monitored and conclusions reported, it happens and intervention [like global warming] can increase or reduce it. Dredging (as mentioned), sea defences reducing in some areas, but transferring sea cell energy /reducing sediment supply balance elsewhere to increase erosion, beach nourishment usually from dredging elsewhere, soft salt marsh incursion defences elsewhere Man induced GW/SLR increasuees the level of marine attack on coastal cliffs/beaches, with increased erosion of deposited sediments/balance. There are many human manipulations of a solely natural process.
SARS/Bird Flue/Aids - don't mention as global threats? or BSE/Foot&Mouth,BSE, PM2.5 emission threats cover up? Who knows where your at or want!
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22/06/2008, 9:51 PM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 132
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Blue Bottle was the other 30% of your electrical need in Norway supplied by yourself on a treadmill ? perhaps we all should get one or two if theirs over two in the family. Or as you are a keen pedal bum, link your bike to the spark grid. How unfortunate that the majority of the great British public is still not convinced that Climate Change is caused by Humans and also believe . THAT SCIENTISTS ARE EXAGGERATTING THE PROBLEM. OBSERVER POLL.
Non-believers could it be the hockey stick graph, or Al Gore and his porkies, or is it the stench from the wheelie bin in the garden, maybe Sterns flunky report. All of these plus we are not as nonempty as you think. Economic collapse is the sole end and purpose of green crap policy's, and that would lead us into the new stone-age!.
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22/06/2008, 11:21 PM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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madtosh. Nah, As you might imagine HEP, the Norwegians have plenty of it all year round, 24/7. From memory the solar gear was by Renewable Energy Corp (REC).
The scientists are probably underestimating the problem from the unpredected acceleration in artic sea ice, more than expected glacial retreats, faster greenland ice cap retreat/ breakup, antarctic shelf sub ice lakes/ meltwater.
Observer poll is accurate, was 12 months ago and reflects human disconnect (informed objective reason v misinformed doubt and perception) between what is really happening, 56% POLLED PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MISLED BY EXPOSED FRAUDULENT CHANNEL 4 DOC at the time, is the other interpretation. The poll came out a few months after the fraudulent Channel 4 doc. that even scientists in it totally dismiss the 1980s based outdated contents, programmers contravery motives and out of context comments. Yawn. This poll of 2,032 adults [not exactly millions] found 44% were clear about the lack of scientific contraversy, 56% thought there was contraversy. 98% for 2% against scientific concensus shows the 56% were totally wrong and it was a totally uninformed poll.
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Last Updated: Tuesday, 3 July 2007, 00:25 GMT 01:25 UK 
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'Scepticism' over climate claims |
Accelerating ice-melting may be a sign of global climate change | The public believes the effects of global warming on the climate are not as bad as politicians and scientists claim, a poll has suggested.
The Ipsos Mori poll of 2,032 adults - interviewed between 14 and 20 June - found 56% believed scientists were still questioning climate change.
There was a feeling the problem was exaggerated to make money, it found.
The Royal Society said most climate scientists believed humans were having an "unprecedented" effect on climate.
The survey suggested that terrorism, graffiti, crime and dog mess were all of more concern than climate change.
Ipsos Mori's head of environmental research, Phil Downing, said the research showed there was "still a lot to do" in encouraging "low-carbon lifestyles".
"We are alive to climate change and very few people actually reject out of hand the idea the climate is changing or that humans have had at least some part to play in this," he added.
"However, a significant number have many doubts about exactly how serious it really is and believe it has been over-hyped."
People had been influenced by counter-arguments, he said.
Royal Society vice-president Sir David Read said: "People should not be misled by those that exploit the complexity of the issue, seeking to distort the science and deny the seriousness of the potential consequences of climate change.
"The science very clearly points towards the need for us all - nations, businesses and individuals - to do as much as possible, as soon as possible, to avoid the worst consequences of a changing climate." | |
Economically, I take the opposite view, we are stagnated in growth because we produce little in the UK and rely on the City too much as a money market, £1.5Trillion of personal credit/borrowing and the inflated prices of property/equity. If you burst these bubbles the UK has little.
I think your optimism on double extraction reserves concept. Even if its there in the ground, its going to be financially, geologically and technologically more difficult to extract smaller deeper pockets, or via secondary techniques of existing fields. Oil has a limited fuel future. The $20 barrel has gone for good, possibly the $100 barrel. Also add the futures markets and speculators, who have dived out of the IT and property markets are going to stay invested in the commodities, metals, oil markets for the forseeable future, keeping oil prices high, escalating.
If you start mass installing solar panels and other microgeneration these are all new local jobs and economic activity for small businesses, same with recycling and recovery jobs, green cars, hydrogen production, ok same with wind turbines. So green policies (typically GREEN anti consumer idealists, goldfish have feelings idiots) can damage existing fossil fuel based jobs with no greater economic substitution; but on the other hand new green technologies, fuels, consumer uptake in the right pragmatic/realist hands will lead to a new wave of sustainable economic growth, similar to steam and the industrial revolution. I see a smart technology economic renaissance, not a stone age. Its historically a human trait to get around problems with better technologies and solutions.
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23/06/2008, 12:03 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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![Right Hug [}]](/cs/emoticons/emotion-48.gif)
Re: Chips in Bins.
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The Poll was 4 months after the Great CH4 Fraud. Worth reading all
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/climate-change-an-inconvenient-truth-for-c4-439773.htm
Two of the scientists who took part, Eigil Friis-Christensen, the director of the Danish National Space Centre and Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, have publicly said that their contributions were distorted, and it has been the subject of many other complaints by scientists.
The Fraudsters
The Great CH4 Fraud. Basically The New Party and CH4 were written off and discredited as scientific charletons, quacks, misguided monetarists, business opportunists and mear contraversialist, oh and put up truck driver. Zero Substance. Its old hat. Lawson, Martin Durkin, Viscount Monckton, Durward, Stewart Dimmock, Washington-based oil company/neocon sponsored [same people who started the Iraq war]Science and Public Policy Institute, before Exxon pulled funding this year. These guys want science to fit free market theory, and squeal when it doesn't.
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23/06/2008, 12:07 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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23/06/2008, 1:33 AM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 132
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I could do with a bit of heat for my runner beans and where have all the starlings gone this year, grow your own food,every thing will be short supply come the Autumn. Lucky old me still got an open fire , When the lights go out and your gas flow stops via the Kremlin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Pedal faster you won't get the lights back on , but at least you be warm Blue-Bottle. Stock up the scullery old bean.
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23/06/2008, 1:49 AM
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ironsmad
Joined on 12/03/2008
Posts 132
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If it wasn't for the truck driver the school children of this country would have been fed this global clap trap, day in day out. Monckton knows his field. Where Al don't .
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23/06/2008, 9:39 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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You are just agreeing with the Greens, grow your own beans, buy local. Funny that.
You could join the Greens, heard the've got a few warm sweatlodge vacanies.
Think I'll stay well out from nutty lodges mongooses or hauliers; and live with in microgened 6star real world concept.
Schools deliver uncensored Global Warming science and attend Tyndell Centre lecture regardless, despite diesel greased haurlier stooge and nu party pygmy spouting monwacko. I agree with the classic and famous comment on Mongoose as a "cherry-picking, downright misrepresentor and pseudo-scientific gibberer", put up by oil companies/oil investment companies. Says in all. Al didn't even need to clean the soles of his shoes. Not sure what happened to the Exxon sponsored Apocalyse rubbish Mongoose was going to front. A 3rd toff hare brain connected with the criminal /failed 80's Poll Tax and Militant Right spam. Bit extreme for me and most. Probably no different than when wacky creationists wanted to control the science lesson with CI fringe mumbo. Schools put them in the compo.
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23/06/2008, 10:13 AM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 24/05/2008
Posts 85
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For me, I stand with small businesses who benefit from the microgen technology revolution, the roofer, the builder, the plumber, the electrican, the chippy, the solar installer, panel supplier and cleaner/maintainer. Not huge energy coorporates like Centrica or BritishEnergy who are totally sucking pensioners dry in winter. In time it and the costs will be little different than the Everest double glazing boolm, if you remember the initial Snowdon adds and then relative pricey units. Costs came down massively/units over 15-20 years. I know for a fact a borosilicate solar heat 2-3sqm array will supply 70% of heating needs, supply water at 50C on a gloomy November's day. If I need Centica gas to get water up to 70C in winter, or extra heating I have a flexible choice, not an expensive dependence. Mate of mine even did without the gas as he has a ground heat pump arrangement in Yorkshire. The propeller mini wind turbine is defunct as its useless in low/turbulent wind conditions. For winter electric to top up PV solar, small efficient less visually intrusive, double helix turbines are the home future. Search Helixwind. The key is Microgen mortgages covering difficult installation costs that are linked to property equity, so microgen adds property value.
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09/07/2008, 6:18 PM
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GreenBlue
Joined on 01/06/2008
Posts 59
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Evening News 24 » You Say » Opinion » Chips in Bins.
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