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16/06/2008, 10:00 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Chips in Bins. South Norfolk District Council have brought the curtain down on the Chip n Bin trial. Well thank goodness and good riddance! http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=enonline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED16%20Jun%202008%2007%3A48%3A52%3A753 Whether trying to accurately quantify waste or recycling amounts individually, as a basis for Pay as you Recycle, or Pay as you Throw taxation; it has proved, expenisive, unreliable, making collection times inefficient; basically a waste of time. We could have told them this. What great reasons to bin it! Its a corrosive, stazi and techno-bureaucractic concept, like bringing NASA shuttle technology to invade and victimise individual poor or viable home habits. Its vinegar rather than honey approach. The landfill tax fines should be shared communually via council tax, or broken down to a ward level. Equally the rewards /profits of recycling and credits should be passed on to communities or high recycling composting wards by a discount or reduction in  Council Tax amounts, or enhancements of community services.  This would be the greatest £££ back general incentive/ encouragement to recycle/ create product. Norwich recycles 27% (up from 16% 24 months ago), and this could easily be broken down to ward level by general sampling annually, as opposed to targeting individuals week on week.      Report

17/06/2008, 12:42 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Chips in Bins. More Tax gone down the drain, a rough guess £500,000 ? . Why should there be landfill tax anyway. More EU clap trap This is where EU law becomes an ass.What this country needs is too get out of this over-sized money grabbing legal mafia .Most people in Norwich are sick of recycling and having rubbish collections once a fortnight, The first political party to say it needs to looked at again will have a vote winner.    Report

17/06/2008, 8:44 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. Disliking recycling is akin to kids not wanting to go to school, or grown men to the dentist. Landfill tax, other than jail sentences, there aren't other mechanisms. If it wasn't the EU, it would be Westminster. Landfills harm the environment and causes diseases, noone one wants them near them, running out of them. Incinerators harm the environment cause diseases, noone wants them, they are expensive Recycling is the cheapest; but like walking to the local shops some can't be bothered and calling for a waste taxi solution. Sorry they are not provided by the council. Iron man your waste is yours, not mine, not the councils. There's no away. Sort it out!    Report

17/06/2008, 9:54 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Chips in Bins. My waste is my waste,untill it is collected by the council agent ,I pay for this waste to be disposed of in the correct and legal way. Every time I fly I see tons and tons of land,spare land up and down the country. The land fill tax was meant to apply for small countries like Holland ,which don't have much spare land.if is was true that land was running out in Britain. Why is this government planning to increase the population by 20 million plus in next 20 to 25 years.    Report

17/06/2008, 8:24 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. Council is saying it increases my council tax bill for disposal costs of your wishful wasting and others. I simply don't agree subsidising getting rid of your waste out of my pocket, when the recycling option breaks even, or saves the council tax payer present and future haemorages. Its not a right, and councils have the right to cut expensive, wasteful services. Disposers are Council Tax Scroungers/Squeelers, not savers, IMO! They want an exorbitant guilt edge and deadthrow disposal (black hole) service, I want a sustainable and affordable recycling servive, with minimal disposal. The black holes are running out! New thinking/attitudes required! Wrong, landfill tax is designed for the UK as it was proved peoples health in close proximity to landfill in South Wales, Yorkshire was suffering really badly. Nooone wants incineration/landfill near them. Look at Suffolk. Virtually no licenced landfill left and a whole communities up in arms with pitch forks about incinerators in Mid Suffolk. I saw beautiful heather moorland , countryside or grade III agricultural land dug up (in the wilds), spoiled, polluted, trashed  for good with garbage/plastic so you and other can continue you out of site, out of mind, someone else sorts it, I pay my disposal service wack gov mindframe. Vomit!!!!!!!! Truth is residents will accept in relative terms a house built next door (they will moan/oppose at planning) than a landfill/incinerator built next  door (knives  out/over dead bodies), or even 5kms away. Inconvenience/rural NIMBY v health/illness/death/smells; mmmmmm,,,tricky choice!!!! If you can't accept the need to optimise recycling, or to be bothered/too lazy, that there is no environmental black hole/away; pay a special disposal 3x more tarriff for the volume service.    Report

18/06/2008, 4:37 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Chips in Bins. well I don't intend to sort anymore it all goes in one bin one week and in the other one the next. Get the machines that can do the job with got more important issues than rubbish going on in our lives. My carbon footprint is going to get bigger and bigger but I am planting 4 trees in my garden, perhaps that will cancel that out. Beech and Oaks they turn carbons into oxygen, now That is green and important and you don't pay no tax and you just sit back and watch them grow and one small thing it can save the planet .    Report

18/06/2008, 7:17 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. Well having planted 000's oaks and beeches, with a highly -ve carbon footprint, this is a great individual response, rather than talk about then or a few token numbers for the conscience /symbolism. However they can't deal with converting the masses of excess CO2 levels. Its got way beyond this. 3Rs before machines. Machines are more costly £40/T (higher council taxes) than recyling (cost neutral/revenue) and should only be used for dimmishing tonnage of mixed waste that is not easy to recycle. The waste hierarchy applies. Reduce,Refuse, Recycle/Compost; then only machines after. Emissions and waste rubbish need cutting' recycling by individuals being responsible and taking responsibility; not palm off/ put the responsibility on others.. We are custodians or wreckers of the planet. People who don't/won't recycle, let their carbon footprint get big, are not good custodians with a poor excused legacy.    Report

18/06/2008, 2:01 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Chips in Bins. Is the tree answer too simplistic for you, we have lost 10  billion acres of forest since Columbus set sail too prove , the world was not flat. unfortunaly we still have flat thinking of local council and big time corrupt governments, a one world order waiting too dominate and control our every day thinking and movements and every thing we do. From rubbish to cctv when you shop, log-gin phone calls and emails and religious mapping .Data base controls and they have took your free thinking away blue bottle,the kings new clothes and you believe it all.    Report

18/06/2008, 8:17 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. Back to waste and bins, I'm of to shared and firm conclusion, there are too many lazy and excuse making waste slugs around who don't /won't bother to recycle enough. Its clear as day. If all recycled fully, we would soon have the issue licked, and it would save a few idiot columnists at the DM/DE a whole load of wasted print space. KNCs tripe I'd say!    Report

18/06/2008, 8:36 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. Even worse than than KNC tripe fiction is that bit of bog roll rag Identity and real slug character and wolf in sheeps clothing Griffin; whose only useful fit of purpose use is feeding an anaerobic digester.    Report

18/06/2008, 9:08 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. Even if every person planted 4 trees each,  covered back all that lost forest from food/agricultural land, it would not make a huge GAIA rebalancing impact. It would be like trying to stop a supertanker with a parachute. Well apart from starving with no food land for 6bn+ population. In 50 years the globes just put up 500m years worth accumulation/ carbon capture of of fossil fuels. Fact. Scientist are measuring CH4 massive releases and rises from permafrost and continental shelf sediments. If people don't act with waste black hours, skyfillin, fossil fuels, spread new technologies; prevaricate on; we can rename Earth -- Venus II - The 2nd Permian - only suitable for cactus, snakes and scorpions.      Report

21/06/2008, 12:18 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Chips in Bins. The Earth's warmer period started around 1750 a rise of 0.5 degree per century ,and over the last ten years has fallen with more falls in the next ten to20 years. Why is you eco-doom-muck  spreaders , see only down side too modest beneficial warmth from our stunning sun. Drowning Polar bears , desert storms in Downing ST. Now stop it blue -bottle I thought you had a mind of your own . A little inconvenience of the truth is Al GORE NEW HOME IS RIGHT BY THE SEA. Now I know a lot people think he is a bit dim and did he not mention sea rises of 20 meters in a few years, well that says it all. The facts are the seas do rise and fall, and over the last 200 years they have.===== =4 teeny inches. Now most people minds in this country are focusing on the real threats to our dear way of life .Fuel ,Food ,Heating,House Price Crash and will we have a job this time next year.        Global Warming has been put to the bottom of the Mothers of All Compost Heaps .    Report

21/06/2008, 10:30 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. True to name madTosh on GW, you read fiction/ fringe conspiracy/ rag nonsense than science. .Its human nature to focus on where the next meal comes from, bills to pay, the next monthly pay check, or job security; apart from food supply, most is a totally different argument from GW effects, thus todays valid, but easy distraction away from long term global warming effects. Yes the next 5years are going to be very rough. Billions in India/ China want our livestyles, with a finite or diminishing extractable resource supply. Price rises/ lack of credit/ economic good feel reflex this. People in Yarmouth might have a 10% house price /equity problem in 5 years from the current credit crunch; but a 100% equity reduction in 50-100years from GW/Sea Level/Coastal erosion/surge events. Mad you mearly reflect the typical 100years in Solutude mentality. Too myoptic on next weeks problems to worry about long term wipeout catastrophes .This is my limit to fiction/analogy. As a person who's seen the effects in Spitsbergen, St Georgia, Canada, New Orleans, Bangledesh, knows a bit about pollen and ice oxygen isotope analysis/ impacts on wildlife; London and other UK cities including future Norwich are at grave risk. I'm not even paid to say this. Many of us knew 25 years ago, based on now confirmed and SLR predictions that the Thames barrier was a short term sticky plaster. Stick around.Having an very independent mind, looking at the evidence and science both sides and 98%:2% weight against; man enhanced global warming is very high; and denoucers are mear Ostriches with heads in sand. Idiots with little else to do. Conspiracy has taken over there every day neo cortex , 100 years in solitude mentally; getting scratched about short term events; get wiped away by the long term pattern and map that was always there. Basically sea level rise changes of minimum  0.75m over the next 100 years will affect 80% of 6bn people/cities if we do the right things; 5-10 metres [Greenland/Antarctic ice shelf; thermal dynamic sea water expansion effect] we follow on regardless like Ironmad, or those hopeful the stacked ice in the glass science experiment; is defied magically on a global effect.  Insurance companies; many US big corporation (former antis, now see the magnitude of the GW effects on their businesses, turnovers and profits) are now driving governments into GW action/ collective policies. Non seroiusly challenges Stern economic arguements, most agree. Now these companies do their homework, exploy their own experts, scrutinise the death Climate Change science, for easier ways out. They haven't dented the science, indeed identified how vulnerable their own businesses are. Short term economics like Food, Energy Prices, housing/mortgages in UK etc are huge short-medium term problems  like banana plantations going bust in 100yr/Solitude; but these are overcome, solutions found and 99% of peop le come through scatched but alive. WWII most people came through, scarred, but readjusted their lives on ration cards, bikes, no plasmas; Maggie, 1980's shakeout (10-15% unemployment, 15% interest rates, 20% inflation) most people suffer pain, readjust but survive. Climate Change effects enhanced by human fossil fuel us, a factor of 6bn expanding world human population is the greatest mid-long term challenge for humans, not the earth. The second issue is access to Food/resources. Climate change effects generally shrinks food supply, we can see it in US wheat/corn production/harvests, add the biofuel land demand. We could see wars; perhaps a regional or World War. Hope not. So if you can reference anything scientific and peer reviewed.. lets have it...lets have it all. Otherwise stop the fiction, bluesky madtosh and cyberBS on GW.    Report

21/06/2008, 11:29 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Chips in Bins. Hurricanes are a natural process ,do you believe Katerina was caused by GW . New Orleans is a Flood Plain, Bangladesh low lying country, it has monsoon season ever since time began .Collective policies= Global enterprises=Global one world order=Controlling the masses, have a look at they work for you.com, google it. Charles's Clarke visited the states last year for a very interesting global meeting. When they turn the power off who you gonna call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .    Report

21/06/2008, 12:12 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Chips in Bins. I don't need to beleive anything. Increased GW effects does care about human one world order concepts. Crap happens, more serverely, more often. If you had done your scientific research, scientist agree that the frequency and likihood of CAT 5 huricance events on the Southern US coast was significantly higher; was due to man made GW as the Gulf of Mexico sea temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico. New Orleans is a Delta, Bangledesh a floodplain and delta. This came from FEMA. Their science oncurred that if GW sea temperature inpact were not modelled, Katrina would have been CAT 3, the US Engineers flood defences would have withstood, not overtopped/breached, and were designed for a CAT 3 event. GBush decided not to listen/ cut these specific FEMA dept budgets, [because he was into the natural event  only thing mentality like madTosh]and got GW burnt, saw the need to listen to Climate scientists/ protections and mend his natural event thinking. This was his Damascus event that he and oil companies could no longer deny/osterich away. Typical, like much of his Iraq/Afghan/ war on terror BS./ neocon overreaction. SL rises, and the same sea temperature in the Bay of Bengal is making flooding /weather event impacts in Bangledesh more servere, more frequent and catastrophic. I've looked, and knew, its utter Tosh, good script material for the next 007 film. No science as requested. Global conspiracies are more abound a the nearest student union or mothers union come to that.    Report

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