Search Sort Posts:  Oldest to newest Newest to oldest

14/05/2008, 10:25 PM Disgusted of Norwich South Joined on 07/11/2003 Posts 40 Council won't take war veteran's rubbish What is going on when a man like Mr Woodward is treated like this? Haven't these Council people any common sense and decency?    Report

18/05/2008, 10:27 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish  Labour Party tougth on bin crimes ,tougth on the causes of bin crimes.This war veteran is a bin offender,Norwich City Council hide your faces in shame this man forte for freedom and you council officers are low life scum why don't you get a real job.    Report

24/05/2008, 12:19 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish  ironsmad wrote:  Labour Party tougth on bin crimes ,tougth on the causes of bin crimes.This war veteran is a bin offender,Norwich City Council hide your faces in shame this man forte for freedom and you council officers are low life scum why don't you get a real job. Bit over the top and inaccurate. Axes to grind at easy targets. If there were no council officers doing an underpaid job [compared to the private sector, skim your cut and bonus job], an unchecked mafia operation like in Naples would be dealing or not dealing with your rubbish. Perhaps Cityuncare have not reached these unquecked practices, yet. But they could without well qualified integral council "officers" there to run and enforce the collection contract, and sort the "special" cases a private contractor either wouldn't be interested in, or be wacking on extra  individual "£100" extra service/call out costs.You would just have rubbish piling up outside ones door, noone to contact without ready cash to a cowboy operator/flytipper, no one to whinge to or get someone to deal with it. Perhaps like Naples, if you whinge, the Camorra will come and flytip 30Tonnes of gabbage in your garden, for your troubles. Common sense has to come into play in this case. The council has a major undertaking to get £2m worth of blue bins out to over 40,000 homes in a year. Its a huge take with all the different property/household requirements. Mistakes are going to happen. Its little to do with the Labour Party. All Norwich Councillors 38 from all 4 parties voted overwhelmingly for blue bin role out. It was a cross party waste group with officers who devised it. Simple solution without the media drama and popoular anti recycling /AWS bandwagon. 1) Mr war vet rings the council up, explains his special circumstances 2) Council agrees to sort his recycling for him, or just exempt him from recycling, as an understandable special case. 3) Council agrees that Citycare take his bin from his door, rather than the pavement, OK the fellas 90. End of problem. Sorted. No media hype. PS My Dads a war vet with bits of grenade still in him from Korea, 81, but he insists on doing his bit, recyling, home composting, compost on the roses, following council guidance and putting his bins on the pavement fortnightly; without moaning, playing the aged war vet card or crying foul as a council victim. I'd actually think he quietly enjoys this on the QT, as he likes the routine along with walking the dog and getting a paper from the newsagents. He just gets on with the job, and contacts/negociates with the council if he has a query or problem. They are usually very good in trying to find an individual solution. I just sound like this direct communication and sorting this special case has been done, I'd suggest from both parties.        Report

26/05/2008, 12:41 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish All the councillors may have voted for blue bins but when was we the great public consulted.Never as always and for council officers to be underpaid come on most of these jobs are around £23,000 + a year.Money for old rope ,have look around Norwich and see the amount of rubbish that is building up in gardens and outside the fronts of their homes.Fly tipping every where as for spending 2 million on blue bins what waste of tax payers money .This Labour Party is doomed ,and if you had read the report in the press Mr Woodward had contacted the council for help 6 months earlier , only for this to fall on deaf and unwilling ears.With your father being 14 years younger and not parshley sited he should be able to carry out all of those tasks.    Report

26/05/2008, 11:00 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Consultations each cost council tax money. Norfolk CC spent £40,000 on getting feedback on whether folks wanted a MFR, MHT, MBT+AD, CHP or PGP facility to treat their future rubbish. 2 more recycling / fly tipping officer. General public reality understands the technology and the nuts and bolts, cost breakdowns/ logistics. Today consultations have got silly, ie every council decision? Council officers pay is the national average, like teachers most have specialist qualifications. Plumbers and electrician earn 3x as much (no disrespect to plumbers and electricans). Perhaps we should import Polish council officers and see how they fair and if we can get them on the cheap.? Rubbish in gardens and flytipping. Its nothing to do with blue bin roll out. Have you ever put a double sofa in a 240l wheely bin? Most other fly tipping is trade waste, plaster/building/ diy related  to landfill gate fees, can't be bothered mentality and the landfill tax. Blue bin in most other city's has increased recycling rates by 10% in the first 12 months, eg Oxford. This saves council cash, my cash paid in council tax long term The public were  fully consulted on the blue bin scheme, and still are. Its on Norwich CC web/ publications/ via EEN/EDP. I personally was adequately consulted in Castle Mall. If people don't like the original strategy, where were they at St. Andrew when councillors voted (16 members of the public attended), why didn't they lobby, why didn't they stand and become elected as a councillor with an alternative plan. Like fly tippers they were busy elsewhere and couldn't be bothered, moan after the event. I actually think blue bin system is the best optimal system in terms of efficiency and cost. Continuing rubbish collections is more extensive due to landfill costs or its simply running out; comprehensive recycling is restrictively expensive as not all will participate (can't be bothered/don't understand) with 7 bins outside. Doing nothing is hugely expensive, the opposite too complicated for normal folk. Blue bin is the compromise. I do agree Labour is doomed. Iraq, Economy, Spin, 10p mess, lack of vision  and leadershipto a  changing world of less energy, oil, resource, food, housing demandstime is up! Mr Woodford - repeat - individual mistakes are made when rolling out a 40,000 bin system in a year.   How many individual bins/ personal circumstances is that checked off per day. Thats 110 residents that have to be covered every day.  This is without the brown bin roll out, other recycling, schools schemes/education, trying to clear up after other people and clear valid and general concerns (as well has having to waste time with general armchair bandwagon moaners who haven't bothered to research, my term; officers have to serve all people as valid). This is why as a self employed tradesman on twice an officers pay, I'd never have the service skills of a council officer. I'd have a box with a label poor whinging client; poor business, lose these. Council officers can't do this. How do we know Mr Woodford did explained his personal circumstances accurately or contacted the right person?  We don't know the full details.      Report

26/05/2008, 12:37 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish What are the service skills of a council officer ? none .Most builders have a 5 year apprenticeship and goodluck to them for what they earn,council officers have big fat perks ;earning's related pension ,payed sick pay most have annual time out .In fact council workers have more time sick  than any other businesses and I pay for it out of my taxes.I would like to see polish workers come in and do a far better job ,for half the price.Back to recycling its all about saving money bin collections halved to 26 times a year .The rubbish we generate will not shrink in fact with all the new housing which is forecasted for the Norwich area it will almost double,we should look to France and Sweden and other countries where they burn up to 75%  of household trash .They also have far better rates for recycling with no reduction in collections in this country we just have not got the planning and will to get the job right.    Report

26/05/2008, 3:30 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Council officer: Builder comparison. Totally different economic skills set. Hasn't a clue. So why don't Butchers get the same money as modern Surgeons, they are both great with a blade? The future is for high technology, high educated, interpersonal, reporting, specialist area management, admin and IT skills that most council officers have. Most council officers dealing with collections/disposal/recycling are CIWM qualified following a 3 year degree, understand government policy, council strategy and the workings of council procedure. If they worked for a private waste company like Sita, Veolia or Viridor, they will be on £35,000-£50,000 car, bonus etc. If not, lets train everyone for 5 yrs as a builder, and see the resultant economic disaster. It would probably take a polish worker years to be trained up to the same level of council officer, and if they had excellent English/Planning/Waste Management qualifications, I doubt they would be applying for a council officer position when higher paid private sector positions are available. This is the skills/ pay market where the market in twice in the private sector. This is not putting builders down. When loads of houses are needed their skills are needed and they earn a great wage, much better than a council officer. When there in a recession, less work, unemployed, wages are less. Blue Bin; Rubbish Bin . Its the same volume overall collected. 52 collections/yr. Matter can't be created or destroyed. The point is half the volume/ collections are earmarked and scaled as recycleables with profit, not expensive and waste disposal. Hasn't a clue. Burning garbage, just not sustainable, massive PFI subsidies £200million per county, with vast CO2 emissions, PM2.5 unmonitored emissions, toxic fly ash to find a toxic hole for and the 18th -21st rank technology for energy efficiency. £55-60 per tonne for fixed 25-30yr contract. Small/zero profit. Net Energy efficiency= 18-20% for Electricity only, 25-28% for Power and heat. No brainer. Hasn't a clue. If Sweden burn up to 75% of gargage, thus recycles 25%.  Hey we can burn 100%, but is not to confirm this is great, like Naples its a confession of waste resource/ management failure!! This is a poor recycling rate wasting loads of materials. Norfolk recycles 40%, burns nothing. MBT+AD at Costessey. Austria burns less than 10%, but has the highest recycling levels in Europe at 55%. Up to 80% of waste can be economically  recycled at less costs / tonne than burning. Plasma gasifiers for the last 20% of garbage such as plastics and  composite waste. The best Planning would totally ban incinerators and 80metre chimneys and put the money in cheaper more effective Resource Recovery facilities.        Report

27/05/2008, 2:23 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Norfolk recycles 40% of rubbish land fills 60% hmmmm not going to reach EU standards .Lets build zero-pollution multi fuel combustion systems which are designed by British engineer's,60% burnt no land fill tax.The fly-ash can be turned into building blocks and road aggregates as the Dutch and Belgium do now.So easy even a Polish council officer would grasp it and they have.Best of all they still have there trash taken every week along with all the EU members states .Now infant mortality rates if we take away the fag smoking parents drinking expectant mothers crap and bad diets,and bad living teenage mothers.What results would we find then.    Report

27/05/2008, 12:39 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish False Re Norfolk: Norfolk is ahead of game, and within government LATS targets for 2008. When the SRM biogest kicks in 2010/11 it will deal with 40% mixed rubbish in 2011, same with a plant near Kings Lynn. The gap is 20% more recycling and composting between 2008-2011. Considering 33% of waste is food waste, and Broadland/N Norfolk on 50% now have just started collecting food waste /composting weekly, 60% divertion from landfill is easily achievable by 2011. By 2016 even 70-75% is possible. There aren't any zero pollution combustion systems in the world. Period. Other than the regular nasties like metals,PAHs, particles; plastic derived CO2 is now legally a UK/EU pollutant. So combustion hasn't a future. Why are 14 global car companies rushing to get H2 fuel cell vehicles mass produced and waste companies installing autoclaves, gasifiers and digesters (these qualify for ROCS). The Combustion Game is up, now, whether cars, waste or energy, so signing up to 30 years of mixed waste combustion is business and environmental lunacy.. Combustion is of mixed waste and fossil fuels is unsustainable.This is made clear by the fact zero incinerators qualify for Renewable Obligation Certificates or ROCS.Incinerators are all subject to the EU WID directive which is a political pollution directive, not an health directive. No fly ash can be made into building blocks, its too toxic with 20+toxic metals only partially captured from flue gases. The only solution is dump this toxic waste into toxic landfills in Peterborough, Essex or in the blighted village of Bishop's Cleeve north of Cheltenham. Currently there is no UK protocol for Incinerator Bottom Ash or IBA. This in part is why the previous Norfolk WRG incinerator bid failed because WRG could not find any road builders or construction firms to take 20% of lead and zinc rich ash off their hands for 25 years, so poor business case, also no heat clients or firm site. No businesses would sell and blight their own nearby land investments.So incinerators if we call them by there proper name are not sustainable, are a waste of energy and is very expensive /30 year contract lock in as Veolia have proved in East Sussex (doubled their construction bill £160million and demanded a 30year contract to break even). If you look through the offical pollution permit for these French made incinerators (there are no UK incinerator owned companies in the UK), it states 35 of all PM2.5s pass through our filters, and 60-70% of even more toxic PM1s do the same. The 1990's dioxin concerns are overcooked, but the modern incinerator /coincinerator(cement kilns, RDF combustion power plants) are metal laden PM2.5 and PM1 fine particle emissions. EU WID says they don't have to monitor particles this size, companies oblige, just larger PM10 that filters capture 99%. So its the PM10 filtered headline; not the unmonitored PM2.5> that is the C21st modern incinerator hazrd hazard The UK run/made incinerator falacy. Veolia - French Viridor- French Sita - err French SUEZ WRG - err Spanish FCC Covanta - USA CYCLERVAL -opphs French - National Power company subsid. Ward mapped infant mortality rates (2002-2006,very recent over a period) at 12 modern EfW facilities are 300% higher dowmwind than upwind, and worsened since the EfW operation. Why?? Conclusions - 1)Incinerator PM2.5 emissions consistenty are causing ill health and signiture mortality. Most US EPA science for a 500,000 cohort proves the pathway for CODP,asthma, infant mortality and incinerator PM2.5 toxicity. This accounts for other relevant variables such as poor fat diets, smoking, poverty/deprivation, age, sex, gender, traffic emissions 2) Ill people with COPD and asthma suffers love to live, and actively move to downwind ward, and die prematurely  and seek poor health in ward areas downwind of incinerators, and consistenly flock there. This is too regular to be chance. These include wealthy leafy areas as well as deprived. Non smokers and smokers.    Report

27/05/2008, 1:15 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish If one doesn't beleive the weekly food waste collection direction, from the now defunct old weekly garbage wasteage /disposal mentality that still pervades unfortunately; and the technology/ energy move away from mixed waste incinerators. See todays story Rich compost back to the fields to help farmers now suffering high chemical fertiliser prices (oil dependent) and help food production/prices. http://www.letsrecycle.co.uk/do/ecco.py/view_item?listid=37&listcatid=217&listitemid=10026 This is the future way for collections where mindlessly burning (disposing to ash/ atmosphere) food waste, or as mixed food waste is a poor business / energy plan. So my prediction is weekly collections will return, but for kitchen caddy food waste only; but not for weekly mixed waste. This is now a past C20th concept when we had copius landfills capacity, the UK had free access /control to world resources, sustainability wasn't an issue, energy was cheap and fossil fuel /waste combustion CO2 pollution thought negleable by skyfilling. Now we know differently. Unfortunately new rules apply to waste. Waste is a resource, which in turn need sorting for purity and market price.    Report

27/05/2008, 11:30 PM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish weekly collection for kitchen waste should have been in from the start of the 2  week cycle of rubbish collection, more lack hindsight by council planning.Many local councils have returned to weekly collection of rubbish due to smells rodents and maggots..They still have high returns on their recycling collection's we don't return to how it used to be,a lot of people will and have.Is to to burn their own rubbish in their gardens with local air pollution increasing with many poisonous toxins.I will point out that the countries with the greenest records in Europe also have incinerators how does that tally with the notion that incinerators are polluting ?It doesn't.    Report

28/05/2008, 5:25 AM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish  ironsmad wrote: weekly collection for kitchen waste should have been in from the start of the 2  week cycle of rubbish collection, more lack hindsight by council planning. I totally agree and this is the investment many of us have been pressing for! Collecting food waste and processing via cheaper local 5000Tpa scale AD/Anaerobic Digestion is the most sustainable, cost effective, energy efficient and organised way to collect waste. By taking most food out of waste reduces concerns and makes what is left cleaner and easier/cheaper to mechanically separate/recover/recycle.  ironsmad wrote: Many local councils have returned to weekly collection of rubbish due to smells rodents and maggots.They still have high returns on their recycling collection's we don't return to how it used to be,a lot of people will and have.Is to to burn their own rubbish in their gardens with local air pollution increasing with many poisonous toxins.. This was due to political pressure and councils losing there nerve. Consequently they are having to pay for an extra collection, extra £20 on bills. Nothing to do with mythical rats,smells or maggots. Recycling in these WCAs has effectively stalled. Where AWCs are operating, [most], there's no evidence of raised garden bonefires of rubbish. Most folk with kids and two grey cells know the dangers of this, and AWC councils allow larger 360l rubbish bins for large families.  ironsmad wrote: I will point out that the countries with the greenest records in Europe also have incinerators how does that tally with the notion that incinerators are polluting ?It doesn't. Every incinerator is polluting, no exception, old or modern, EfW or CHP; by toxic landfilling for 20% left thats toxic/unuseable ash, skyfilling by CO2 globally, PM2.5 fine particles/PAHs/metals locally, energy inefficiencies that are bettered by other technologies like MBT+AD or Gasplasma coming through.This is a rather unsustainable and temporary schizophenic pole position in a few EU countries [denmark,holland,sweden] have highlighted by incinerator companies. Half Green; Half Brown, yes ahead temporally on landfill diversion,but ultimately flawed, as any recycling above 50-60% are contracturally unachievable for 25 years, as well as missing out on more energy efficient alternative EfW treatment technology. Ben Bradshaw [Labour,Defra incinerator promoter,2004-2007] was one to spin these anomalies only to have it pointed out to him that once these countries got up to recycling/composting 50-60%; their recycling schemes would totally stall at this level; because councils who had signed up to 25 year contracts of waste incineration, had contracturally had to keep these burners fed; meaning these countries would either have to burn a percentage of material carefully recycled by folk or importing other countries waste to burn to make up the capacity. A temporary examples was when a German incinerator company agreed to transport some of Naples crisis rotting 1-2 month old waste and plastic,transported en masse through Italian cities, ( they dubbed  and spun them "ecoballs") to burn them 2,000 miles away in Luxenburg. Pretty mad, breaking the proximity principle for building incinerators in the first place, or like exporting rubbish to china.    Report

28/05/2008, 11:16 AM Disgusted of Norwich South Joined on 07/11/2003 Posts 40 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Are these bins going to have locks on them to stop other people putting rubbish in your bin?    Report

29/05/2008, 4:00 AM ironsmad Joined on 12/03/2008 Posts 131 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish bins with fitted locks are the norm in Ireland ,after dumping of rubbish by people who's bins were full up used their neighbours.Fights and rows were common with disgruntled neighbour's.    Report

29/05/2008, 12:12 PM GreenBlue Joined on 24/05/2008 Posts 85 Re: Council won't take war veteran's rubbish Locks are possible. Just down the road the flats have a half tonne blue dumpster type wheely bin for co mingled recycleables. Its a bit OTT, IMO but today I do see the security side of identity theft and others contaminating others blue bin or sneaking excess in others rubbish bin. What amazes me, barring Mr Woodfords case which is really understandable, are the logic and choices going on. 1) Each house hold has total 480 litres (2x240litres) of bin capacity (almost 0.5 cu metre) of volume to fill every 14 days. That is a massive volume. Add to this 60litres of green box for glass. Add to this home composting 240l-360l, add to this 240l brown bin for folks with gardens who subscribe in (loads). Large families are allowed a 360l superbins, gardenless flats get large blue/black wheely dumpsters 2) 80% of waste can be composted or recycled; no lets lower this to 60% to make things easy and acheivable. After everything, I'm personally producing 2 shopping bags worth of mainly plastic packaging every 14 days/ or 40-60l fortnightly. It would take me 2 months to individually fill a 240l rubbish wheely bin. But I accept I'm not everyone. 3)So if you follow the logic for complaints of overflowing bins and 480litres (half blue bin, half mixed allowance, four things must be happening: A) Some people are lazy, refusing to change old habits and recycling. ie nearly empty blue bin/half full blue bin every 14 days, most going into only 240l, arhh it won't fit!!. Wonder why,Doh!They are not engaging, recycling right, don't understand the instruction - problem. B) Some people are discarding over half a cu metre of every 14 days. This is a lot of stuff. over 16 builders tonne bags worth every year. They are consuming / discarding too much without thought, or is it a waste business/ small trade filtering stuff in ? C) They buy everything in polystyrene / similar packaging that can't go into the blue bin. Running a eBay based business from home, or trade waste to municipal bin. Is this a problem? D) They are trying to stuff old computers, fish tasks, kids prams, ironing boards, surf boards, bicycles, garden sheds or MDF bedroom units into their rubbish bin, usually the bottom as binmen recount. "The lid won't close, the sofa might have to stay out, mentality". Try revamped Swanton Road or call the council to pick these items up. We think plan, save cash for weeks buying stuff; but is our expectation it takes less than 5 seconds to discard/ throw away stuff and its all the councils job from the moment we decide to "thrown to away", our property/our stuff. Where is this sustainable place/ city in the future called "AWAY"! It isn't the sky, the ocean, space or landfill! 3 natural principles . a) There is no free lunch (market economics), discarding has to be paid for (producer/consumer/discarder), recycling is cheaper. b) Matter can't be created or destroyed, even by incineration or black holes. E=mc2 c) There is no place called  Away, someones dumping,skyfilling/landfilling,ocean dumping is someones pollution!            Report

Page 1 of 3 (44 items) 1 2 3 >

Evening News 24 » You Say » Opinion » Council won't take war veteran's rubbish

(Quick links) Forums Home |- Search Forums |- Active Topics |- Unanswered Posts User Options |- Sign In |- Join this community |- Forgot Password You Say |- Announcment |- Opinion |- Community Noticeboard |- Your Reviews Features |- Stickers and Trading Card Swaps |- Black History Month |- Life Matters |-- Life Matters Latest News